Ways to prevent players from breaking the 100 block rule

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Falcon XL, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. I think one or both of the following suggestions should be implemented:

    A: Have a seperate different colored border surrounding a claim that indicates where a player should not claim. This border would be 100 blocks out from the border of the actual legitimate claim as per the 100 block rule. I build highways on this server and I'm tired of having to mark literally 100 blocks from people's claims to make sure my highways don't run into other claims without anyone's permission. It would make it easier for me to find out where I should not build in respect to other peoples' claims. I think such an improvement would prevent players from accidentally claiming within 100 blocks of someone else's claim without the other person's permission.

    B: Have some sort of message any time a player decides to claim within 100 blocks of another claim. For example:

    Are you sure you want to claim in this area? This claim is within 100 blocks of [username]'s claim and could violate the 100 block rule. You should ask [username] for permission to build in the area or remove this claim.

    I also think this would prevent players from accidentally claiming within 100 blocks of another person's claim and breaking the 100 block rule.

    Feel free to provide input!
     
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  2. mmm, there is actually alot more to think about with this than initially meets the eye.

    First up, the server just uses a plugin called GriefPrevention, so there is a barrier to what is possible (not much) without hiring a developer to create an add-on (or feature, but I kinda doubt this would make the cut) or finding another solution.

    Your recommendations can certainly be done and might work in practice - wilderness/rtp areas etc, but warps and spawn would be absolute chaos getting like 30 messages and/or having overlapping borders everywhere when no rules are being violated. So that'd require further development - defining regions where claiming next to each other is allowed, which would need to be managed and handled appropriately.

    GriefPrevention have commented on enforcing a parameter around claims here:
    https://github.com/TechFortress/GriefPrevention/issues/124

    The tl;dr is it could be a plugin, but you are better off just claiming the area you want to preserve and not caring what is happening around that area. There are also technical issues like diagonals that would need to be handled correctly and can get very awkward and confusing in many cases.

    Creating the 'right' implementation that works for everybody in every situation is almost impossible without it getting really confusing - which is exactly what GriefPrevention tries to prevent over other region protection plugins like world guard.
    I think GP hit the nail on the head with how it probably should be handled, everyone just claims the area they want to protect, if anything happens outside of the claimed area, well you didn't claim it so its free real estate.. but even this isn't perfect because people want room to expand and they might not have enough claim blocks initially and so on.

    So having moderators just handle it on a case by case basis and players making sensible claiming decisions (with a good understanding of rule 6+7 ) is probably the best we are going to get. And yeah its going to be annoying for you creating highways, but most players just have afew static claims and after making them rarely require such features beyond shift-right clicking with a stick.

    edit: wow this turned into a 200 word essay, tl;dr what we currently have is okay, maybe
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  3. Why on earth would anyone create diagonal claims? I don't think you can create diagonal claims.
     
  4. not diagonal claims, but claims diagonal from eachother, do they have to be 100 blocks away diagonally too? I assume because its minecraft yes, but thats ~40% more in actual distance than claims parralell to one another.
     
  5. Amrou Kithkin

    Amrou Kithkin The Dread Pirate

    The issue is that this only works if a player claimed an area, not unclaimed bases/chests.
     
  6. Going off on a tangent, this leads me to something that I have been wondering about. Is the "no claim" zone (the area where other players should not claim) around someone's claim a circle with circumference 100 blocks out from the perimeter of the person's claim? Or is it a rectangle with each side 100 blocks out from the perimeter of the person's claim? Or, as you said, is it diagonal? Would the corner of a claim be 100 blocks both horizontally and vertically away from the other corner? Or would it be 71 blocks away horizontally and vertically? (Using the Pythagorean Theorem, that makes the hypotenuse of this "triangle" 100 blocks.

    Same with warps/spawn. Would the area where the 100 block rule doesn't apply be a square 1000 blocks side length centered at warps/spawn? Or a circle 500 blocks radius centered at warps/spawn.
     
  7. I can't answer 100% because I'm not staff, but I don't imagine those situations come up very often, if at all. Most of the time it will be quite clear cut whose in the wrong. There are many obsure details that probably can't be answered and are just more of a common sense thing.

    Like if you build a house 501 blocks from a warp, the people building inside the 500 blocks warp zone could be breaking your no claim zone - which you have because you are over 500 blocks from a warp. Or with the new rule of having 30 days to report someone breaking the rule, what if I build underground, right next to your claim and it goes unoticed for 30 days because it'd be very difficult for a player to detect.

    Its almost impossible to create a set of rules with every detail, if you try there will almost certainly be loopholes and work arounds, so most people opt for vaguely detailed rules and believe in the common sense of the players and the people enforcing them to make things right.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  8. Also to add, I think the vague interpretation of rules allows them to be flexible. For example, the playerbase might interpret the rule one way, and later the playerbase might interpret the rule another way.
     
  9. This to me is a bad thing. For a thing as solid as claim boundaries, you want rules which are equally solid. You don't want to follow one 'interpretation' and then later find that it is wrong, and tear down your massive base.
    It is not impossible to create of rules which have no loopholes. It simply requires some thought and refinement over time. For example, currently, the definition of "distance" is debatable. If they clarified this, there would be no confusion. Same with the "30 day report" thing. Currently, you could build entirely underground undetected by the owner of the nearby claim and then after 30 days, pop up to the surface and claim right next door to it.
     
  10. Disagreeing with someone takes some thought and refinement too. I have no doubt given enough time and revisions a set of rules with no loopholes could be created, but since entire nations struggle with it, its usually easier to create 'vaguely detailed rules and believe in the common sense of the players and the people enforcing them to make things right'.

    I don't disagree that that specific rule could use some refinement and details though.

    I think for the most part people should just do what they can to avoid claiming that close to people, if you are unsure, staff are usually happy to help confirm before you start building (take a screenshot of response aswell) - I had a situation where I found a village, started building and noticed a couple days later that someone had stored some of the villagers underground, contacted staff and got it cleared up.

    As for preventative measures as the thread suggests I really don't think much can be done, which is disappointing because I'm all for preventing actions over punishing actions. Maybe some others have good ideas, but I think the ones recommended in OP could be helpful in some situations but an actual good implementation of them is quite farfetched and as amrou mentions it doesn't account for unclaimed builds (funnily enough - neither does the rules description).

    But yeah, these recent disagreements/arguements over this rule aren't anything new for this server. Here are some 2016/17 examples:
    https://safemc.proboards.com/thread/5570/needed-rework-100-block-rule
    https://safemc.proboards.com/thread/5619/100-block-limit-claim-rule

    and a funny one of cathal using the rule to sell a small sugarcane farm for 15 stacks of DB: https://safemc.proboards.com/thread/5330/cathal-capital

    I think I have said all I have to say on this one, bai
     
  11. You are saying I did not think about my response?
    To be sure, creating vague rules is much easier. However, as demonstrated by the links you posted, players do not have "common sense", and in the long run, staff will spend a lot longer having to decide on a case-by-case basis if the rules have been broken. This is not a nation, this is a minecraft server. In the real world, there is often a need for much technical detail, which is where loopholes can be found. Here, all we need are wide, encompassing rules; there is no shortage of space, we do not need to be overly efficient.
     
  12. Yes, I agree with this. It's not as simple as just moving a base somewhere else. The vague wording makes it very easy for players to break the 100 block rule. I think the 100 block rule should and should have been modified with player reports and and popular opinion.

    While I'm on the topic, time to ask more questions:

    What exactly is a "structure" in Safe Survival Terms? Is it just a random tower of blocks piled high into the sky? Is it a lit up cave? Is it a cut down forest? Is it a sand area that has been dug out? Is it as something simple as just a random block placed in the middle of nowhere? I can't imagine having to move my build or claim somewhere else because there's like 3 random blocks placed near the claim.

    Also, the 100 block rule says that players cannot claim within 100 blocks of each other. Therefore, if the edge of a claim is 99 blocks away from another person's claim, would that break the 100 block rule? Is it a hard cutoff?

    How exactly is the rule enforced? Is it only enforced by player reports? Or do the mods simply fly around the server like drones observing claims within 100 blocks of each other?

    This is a pain for players like me who just happen to build their base with 4,000 blocks of spawn. And anywhere within a few thousand blocks of spawn is a pretty wild place imo.
     
  13. Maybe not quite as much detail as that is necessary. For "subjective" things such as the effort put into the build, a mod's judgement is better than trying to quantify it.
    It appears to be a hard cutoff.
    And the rule is only enforced by player reports, as otherwise mods do not know if permission was given to build in proximity.
     
  14. I think the 100 block rule is a bunch of garbage- if you want to expand a claim or build you should work something out with the player.
     
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  15. Do it like the Canada US border and cut down every tree in a certain radius. Call it the, "No-touch zone"
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. What if the claim has an area with no trees? What do you do? Plant trees?!
    As far as I know, you can claim within 100 blocks of another claim if the other person gives you permission to do so. Otherwise, don't claim within 100 blocks.
     
  17. There's nothing stopping you from doing that currently. But what if you didn't want someone building right next to you without your permission?
     
  18. Just my personal word of advice, if you are planning on expanding a build in the future, just make the claim much larger than you initially would plan to need. For those of you who are concerned about claimblocks, I've found that just 30 minutes of guardian farming is more than enough time to get 10k claimblocks which is more than enough for a significant claim expansion in most circumstances.
     
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  19. I totally agree with you.
     
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  20. Right next to is one thing, but 100 blocks is way too far.
     
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