Safe Survival Redstone Rules Update

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Shazepe, Nov 28, 2020.

  1. Shazepe

    Shazepe Admin Admin

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  2. blulev

    blulev Villager

    wow its honestly really messed up that the playerbase told the mods how the orignal rules can easily be subverted, so their solution was to include all the possible tactics to circumvent it into the new rules. now theres limits on chunk regions after we told them spreading it out does nothing. now theres limits on hopper minecarts when we told them it can be used instead of an hopper array. now not only is it per chunk but 3x3 chunk region. shouldve just kept out mouths shut...... gg boys prolly it for me. to say this is "more fair" is genuinely insulting.
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  3. Welp. This is the end of Safe's redstone-based economy.
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  4. helo everyone,, ive done some research to try and help everyone work with the new update; i really don’t want to focus on the negative stuff so here’s some ways to work with it!

    firstly with a bit of research, it shows barrels are not currently put on a limit. this is likely because barrels cause less lag as they are a full block, which means they can’t cause much lag to the player or the server. (of course having too many can cause lag) instead of having normal singular chests in places, barrels are a wonderful replacement to chests (singular, not double chests) and can provide the same 27 slots for you to store items. barrels are lag friendlier because they are not ticked by the server. this would give you more chests available to work on a larger storage area if need be. hoppers can also put input into barrels so for shops and such, barrels are a more reasonable option to use now that there are chest limits.

    another thing i found was that if the maths is done, it’s ~33 chests per chunk as of the 3x3 chunk region rule. and that’d be 9 chunks allowing you to have 300 chests in. 9 chunks certainly is quite a lot, but it is not as though a player would need a storage system in every single chunk, so players could make use of this to work out a place to have them self a storage using up majority of the 300 given chests available to place. (150 double chests) a storage like this could work well for players storing bulk, and barrels could be used instead to store items such as misc, unbreakables or such things that don’t come in bulk and would not take up an entire double chest.

    of course some of my research may be invalid or i may have gotten something wrong, but if i did, please feel free to correct me and i apologise if ive gotten something wrong,, have a nice day and hopefully we can work around his or shaz can raise the limit a bit more! (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و✧ once again, please don't spread hatred among the community <3 stay safe and optimistic :D

    edit; also instead of talking about quitting,, we should be openly waiting and providing OUR input to see if we can get a better result from this. we are still giving suggestions so quitting is going to be very hard when you realise that you could've given your suggestion and gotten a better outcome instead. also honestly constantly having players say they and many others plan to quit can hurt Shaz too. he has feelings and he's only doing this so we can have a lag free server. this is all for the better of the server as many complain about lag,, so please understand that even if Shaz is miscommunicating, we also don't have the need to quit when a result isn't even given yet. please no more of these comments because of you were in shaz's place, you would honestly feel attacked and would lead to you avoiding do many player attacks too, causing miscommunication. ٩◔̯◔۶ anyhow, have a nice day/night ! hopefully what ive stated can help. ^^
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  5. How about remove the limits all together? We have already lost 2 long-time players like oBlazin and blah28722 and some people are thinking about quitting (like me) and you don’t want the player base to die do you? I wouldn’t want it to die. If you wanna let it die, let it die. It’s your server after all. Make sure to listen to the community so no one thinks about quitting. You are practically destroying the server’s playerbase and peoples redstone creations like Music’s noteblock projects and shops like Desert Warp, MM, Snowfall Mall and others. If you do nothing, there will be no safe survival left. Do what you will. As long as it involves listening to the community. It’s sad how corrupt and limited you made this server.
  6. as for the comment you made here;
    you stated that these new rules are not affecting you,, but now you and many others are quitting? this is unfair to shaz, because he’s trying to reduce lag on SS and we all have large complaints about lag, especially upon entering malls and warps like desert. it would really hurt shaz if people decide to quit when his decision isn’t even determined yet, and it also hurts me as a player to see my peers and friends wanting to quit over miscommunication or new implied rules. i hope that those planning to quit can wait for the final definite result that everyone is happy with. don’t lose hope if there’s an opportunity for you to change this
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  7. TimelordofLegend

    TimelordofLegend Moderator Moderator

    I also want to mention desert warp will not be closing, we will just be reworking the redstone to bring it up to the new limits. It may just be a few days until some of the shops are back and running. Also SnowFall mall is within the guidelines so there won't be reworking of it and it will stay open.
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  8. first of all saying that i love the mods so much to give any criticism is plain rude. hours of work is valuable and it is necessary for us to be able to keep our work so we should suggest that limits be raised to higher numbers so large works can be kept. the way you’re saying that im just trying to have a good side with the mods because i like them is absolutely rude. it’s not true and you’re just saying that i don’t care about people and their works. the fact you also said im NOT affected is not true. im affected but i am only trying to look at it in a positive way to avoid any negative emotions.

    ‘no one is spreading hatred’. there are many who are complaining and saying things such as ‘shaz doesn’t care about us’ and things like that. this is really getting onto me and i hate how people are saying these things. as someone who has been in a similar position before, it’s not as though he doesn’t have feelings. none of this is targeted at you either. my message is to everyone. he’s doing this for us, and if we don’t like the fact he’s TRYING to help we can give suggestions like i said to get a better outcome.

    You also said we can’t use barrels as a dub. IF you read my post correctly, i stated multiple times ‘singular chests’. if you still don’t get my point that im trying to get people to understand the positives then let me explain again; barrels can replace singular chests and give them more chests available to use in their storage systems. shaz isnt trying to use our suggestions against us, he’s trying to make sure the server doesn’t lag out whilst working with suggestions, and he’s still open to our suggestions too so this is also wrong saying he’s using them against us. he’s not TRYING to ruin the server. that’s exactly why he’s opening to more suggestions after his decisions. and lastly , im not trying to guilt trip and am deeply offended you’ve taken it that way. im only trying to look at the positives to prevent those who aren’t working well with it and spreading unnecessary comments. but if you had taken it that way i apologise but still, the way you’ve corrected me in ways saying im trying to guilt trip, or im trying to get on the mods side because i like them is straight up offensive. these assumptions are given that you’re just assuming this is what I trying to do and telling me to stop. im not saying ANY of that ‘stop spreading hatred or attacking mods’ to you, but it’s true and i have seen it. if you’d like to think badly of me, do so. but please also watch what you’re assuming about me, my personality and what im doing.

    edit: im sincerely sorry if yall think im trying to guilt trip. im trying to change the mood and atmosphere and trying to look to positives. if you guys hate me thats fine. i hate me too and yeah if you all really took it on that way ill be sure to delete my post and if that's not enough ill delete my forums account along with it. happy thanksgiving and yeah.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  9. oBlazin

    oBlazin Veteran

    Here's the thing. We've suggested things to Shaz. Almost constantly, he responds by ignoring us, keeping us in the dark, and implementing rules that are unfair to large portions of players.
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  10. I'm not against what you're saying or any other player, but I'm just trying to say that just using the opportunity to suggest something is better than not saying anything and being down about it. if Shaz wants to ignore us, he can do so but it's what we're trying to do to change his opinion that is important. if he ignores our requests, i just feel like Shaz should be responding to each player and their suggestion instead of listening and not jumping to a decision. you're not wrong and nobody is.
  11. please
    im not saying there aren't negatives either and y'know what if you thought it was necessary to say things to me like: "if you can’t deal with it that’s why your not admin” is already something everyone can be offended by. literally the server means a lot to me as it does to all of us and the fact you said that in such a way hurts. i may be easily offended but if you know that im easily offended you still decided to say hurtful things. you also said that I’m saying: “haha guys look at the positives uwu!!” is so rude. please i don’t see a point in being rude and if you’re not trying to be rude it clearly is showing up rude. i am only giving my opinion as well, and i don’t see why you had to jump onto me about who i am, my way of saying things or my POV. it’s extremely offensive the way you said that and i don’t want to have to continue this as an argument. so please stop, thank you.
  12. Shazepe

    Shazepe Admin Admin

    I did listen to the community, I removed all of the limits but hoppers basically. 300 hoppers in a 3x3 region is very reasonable. We've offered to help players fix their builds, and have asked for their suggestions on what to change. and we did change, significantly. We changed to focusing on enforcing rule 4 for when redstone gets too big. Doing everything a few of the redstoners have suggested is not possible. One build was 20-25k+ entities and took up 50%+ of the server load. Desert warp was 12k tiles, and 2k entities total, both of which creates an immediate tps drop for the whole server. The word "fair" is appropriate, the rest of the server is lagging heavily from this.

    As for upgrades, we have a very powerful server. One of the top performing single core dedicated servers, which is most ideal for minecraft. We're doing an upgrade soon, but it doesn't mean we can let large redstone builds like I just described grow out of control like they were. It will have better performance but it will not be a massive change, as much as me and the community would like to see. It's minecraft, and it's limited in this way.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  13. i never said you were wrong. the way you put it was just hurtful. i don’t mean for players to be happy about things they’re losing, as i said i only want to change the mood and i never wrote an essay that you all were wrong. again if any of you took my post in a bad way, im sorry for the misunderstanding and i would never try to guilt trip you all. it’s just a matter of my POV and my opinion, and blulev i also apologise if it seemed i was trying to say your rude at every sentence, it was just the way you said some things that hurt. im sorry and ill go delete my forums account if you guys really took it in so badly. lmk if you do and yeah. have a nice day
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  14. As a person that loves redstone(i’m still learning), I think that the rules are fine. I barely get any lag. Also, every time someone throws a jab at Shaz or staff, they always manage to prove them wrong. I am in support of the rules.
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  15. Ollie

    Ollie Recruit

    The Hopper limit is too low for Redstone shops. In my builds I use 5 hoppers per single module as the items sold are not stackable, requiring extra storage and shulker unloaders up top. 5x16=80 and over the 70 hopper limit. It is even worse when considering malls (like SOP) have shops above other shops on the 2nd/3rd floor, with their own hopper systems that share chunks with downstairs shops. Any single chunk there would have maybe 140-150+ hoppers per chunk, without even taking into account the 300 hopper per 3x3 region rule.

    The only way around this, is to space out the shop modules so they satisfy the rules. However, the only real areas you find shops on the server is near admin claims, where land is both expensive, and sometimes hard to acquire. I know that when I first started building shops a couple resets ago, I would be often dealing with small claims where compact redstone is crucial.

    If you implemented these rules at the start of a new reset, I don't think there would be as many complaints, but moving the goalposts halfway through a world is worrying.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Well now it would be affecting me because we can't shop like we used to and it's just destroying the economy
  17. fair enough, but just saying it’s affecting you and the rules should not even exist is also fair, but as you know whenever we go to malls or places like desert warp or MM you find yourself in a lot of lag, and they’re operating and they want you to suggest things to improve on the lag so we can still shop without the extreme lagging every time. this is gonna be hard to accept but i doubt theyll lift the new rules at this point. shaz is certainly open for suggestions to change rules tho. honestly i think the current main problem are chest limits,, Shaz should lift them a bit higher but other than that everything else seems pretty fair imo. lots of restrictions have already been lifted. you have a fair point i suppose
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. I do get the lag and when I said no rules I was ranting a bit because if there is loads of redstone in one area it can lag the server, but the lag isn’t as bad as the 1.16.2 release on the server, with 80 people online and 80 people generating numerous chunks every second so the limits should be raised. I’m not an expert in redstone lagging servers because I don’t use redstone on my server plus it’s laggy anyway since I host the server on the same pc I play minecraft on lol
  19. Lixque_

    Lixque_ Villager

    this is really unfair to big shops
  20. RunE

    RunE Moderator Moderator

    Please remember that rule #4 has been in effect since basically forever:
    • Areas that are creating significant lag and are affecting FPS due to entities/redstone/mobs must be modified or completely removed.
    This means that even without any additional rules, most of the contraptions currently affected would have been the subject for removal or modification anyway because they DO cause a big strain on the server performance.

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