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Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by nekkid, Oct 22, 2019.
Wish you could make one similar to the one we had before the 1.13 reset? :3
Don't get me wrong the 1.13 spawn is beautiful but to me it always felt like an event build - fun to go look at bounce around for a bit but not really the community hub I feel like spawn should be. 1.12 spawn yes was simple and not that fancy but it had room to grow when different things were needed, it was open to the world and did not feel as closed off as the 1.13 spawn did. Having spent a LOT of time derping around both I can say that at the 1.12 people hung out, interacted with each other more got up to shenanigans and in general had fun (even if that fun was just derping in a boat around the fountain). But at the 1.13 people just past through, spawn in push a button and then peace out, taking away the community interactions we had at the old spawn. I personally loved all the different hidden rooms and spaces at the 1.12 I would leave little goodies in all the chest for people to find, we had some of that at 1.13 but then hidden chest were removed, secret spaces were closed off and heck even the new tree house that was added near the end had a barrier block over the chest so they could not be opened -why these things where done I have no clue but, to me, it seemed to further show that the 1.13 spawn was not for the players, not for random play, it was there to just get you from point A to B or for the function of getting things (Billy goods, trades or farm items) get your stuff and go kinda feel. And as for ease of use for new players - at 1.12 there were people there to greet you (cause as I said people would just hang out) putting faces to names, happy to show you around. Also if you wanted you could with ease just walk out of spawn find peoples shops and builds and all the world that lay beyond (not like at the 1.13 where it felt like you had to hunt to find a easy way down or out of spawn). I joined not long, a week or so (I think), after the last reset so the 1.12 spawn was my introduction to the server (it also was my first ever time playing on a server so I was a real nood) there where a bunch of people there who said hi, quickly gave me a tour of everything, filled me in on voting and even did my first RTP with me to make sure I had a hang of things. In mere moments I had a feel for what the server was like. But when we got our 1.13 spawn even as a long time player of the server I found it overwhelming, yes there were buttons right there when you port in that take you almost anywhere ya wanted to go at spawn (which I never used really) but if the point of spawn was to be just a click or two away from where ya wanted why not just have /tp for everyone. I enjoy running around at spawn (like I said I like to derp) but at 1.13 things where so spread out and not really feeling connected (and don't get me started on how many times I spawned in went to run off to the warp area or the billys lagged a little and fell into the water, which wasn't always easy to get out of). At 1.13 I saw many a new player join, be welcomed in chat, then just spin in circles not knowing where to go, where to start. Some just leaving never to be seen again, some asking for help in chat and given written instruction on where to go or how to get there (like I said since no one really hung out at the 1.13 there was rarely a personal tour given to the newbies). A lot of "How do I get out of here?" and "How do I get to the wild?" and as soon as they knew, some button pushing later and they were gone most, lets face it, never coming back to spawn unless they had to for some reason. This once more, like I said, is all just part of 1.13 losing the community feel. I would love to see us go back to a spawn that encourages community interaction, play and fun. Heck even the sandbox became neglected and sad at the 1.13 spawn. I don't necessarily think we need the exact 1.12 spawn back (the nostalgia would be real though) but something more like it than the 1.13 spawn, I feel, would help bring back some of the community togetherness that we have been missing.
I loved og spawn but it would be cool if we had a warp for something like the newer spawn
I really like the 1.13 spawn because there are so many places to hide heads during headhunt, and it's fun to explore and kill those special fish for mana kelp and whatnot.
I also liked the simpler spawns as well, easy to get to where you need to go. No hassle.
1.13 spawn is a lot larger so it can be harder to navigate.
An idea just formed in my head, perhaps you could make a special warp just for headhunt? And maybe sometimes the map will change, perhaps build comp winning entries or something, maybe for pvp too.
I think that the spawn with the massive crafting table (Maby that was 1.12 I don't remember) was the coolest one. It had a fun variety of things and seemed different. Perhaps a spawn that looked and was similar to the massive crafting table one would be cool, but then have it be more easy to navigate like the current 1.13 spawn.
I liked 1.13 spawn, but like Boo said, it's massive size took away the community hub 1.12 used to be. I think a spawn built in the same theme as the current one would be good, but maybe we could possibly put all the main buildings together. It was helpful that you managed to put the community farm closer, but we have a giant tower in the background that is just empty space (or command blocks, I've seen a few nametags in there). A smaller version of the new spawn with an emphasis on community would be best with closer buildings would be best.
I'd say go for a similar style to the 1.13 one. I really enjoyed finding all the hidden corners where the fish spawned, and the rewards they dropped. At the same time I agree that a flatter, simpler, and maybe smaller spawn might make things a lot easier to begin with, and perhaps the spawn can then be built upon and improved still, with even more direct input. So eventually a spawn similar to 1.13 with the teleports to make it easier would be great, but to start i'd say go with something small for a smoother start.
Let me share some of my thoughts so far as the creator of the previous spawn. To give you my background; i'm a user experience designer, meaning i research user behaviors on a daily basis. So some of these points you might strongly disagree with, but try to be open.
Lag/load time was an issue in 1.13. There is no way around that fact for players with less computing power. As an experiment i made a "medium" version of the spawn, having the same style as the previous one and trying to downsize more inline of the 1.12 and earlier versions. So far the mods like the size of it. And more experimenting with the the road layout will be done. The idea for this version will have no large elevation (rolling hill slopes tops), so players can freely run towards the edges like previous versions. Because that is a concern i can agree with, and needs to be addressed. Also no special gameplay features like killing fish, etc, to lessen the load. Note that this isn't the new spawn, we're still debating and it's more likely we're starting with a similar style and layout as to 1.12 and prior, maybe changing to something like what is shown below this in the future. I however won't be making that version, because personally it's not motivating for me to downgrade back to what i call "lunch box designs".
Sorry to cherrypick your feedback booNoodles but you summed up some of the other posts as well so it's easier to quote you directly, I don't directly aim this towards you but towards the players with similar standpoints in general.
The feeling of the previous one being more like an event hub, do your stuff and go, rather than a spawn you hang out at is purely subjective and colored by players experience and memories. You will always associate the fondest memories you have with the place you have them at. "i spend more time at the old spawn, i had loads of fun there, therefore i think it's a better spawn". I've joined the server around late 2016, witnessed a few versions of the spawn area and i can safely say at each version of spawn there is a group of players that hang out there. And its usually the same players, and those are always helpful towards new players. What happens if these players are not around/stop playing? well of course you wont have those players populating and hanging out at spawn. So associating the "lack of community feeling at spawn" to the previous spawn comes down to your personal gut feeling. As community feeling is player driven, more so than the location it's happening at. Now was it too closed off? Yes, the elevation in terrain made it harder to just "jump sprint" your way to the edge and start exploring the outside. Now was it preventing you to do that? No. Was the step from 1.12 to 1.13 a massive one? absolutely, and perhaps it was too big of a change for some players to get used to or for Safesurvival in general. Because the larger the change the more people are inclined to dislike or rebel against it.
What people might forget to realize is that the Safesurvival has seen a decline in player activity over the years. From the 80+ people online when i joined, to the 20? peak nowadays. That also will decrease the amount of players that just hang out. You can't blame that on the design of a spawn. I can argue the opposite that with the introduction of 1.13 i've seen an increase in players being online and player activity at spawn since dozens of players were exploring and hunting down fish and getting rewards, and thus hanging out at spawn more. That gameplay was a small experiment from my part to see if Safesurvival was ready for similar event area's like that. Did this result in creating the feeling amongst some players that spawn has become more of an "event area", I'm sure it has. It was also the initial intent to make it feel that way because we had no other lasting events outside spleef and headhunts. Now was it the correct decision to make spawn the event area instead of separate warp? Maybe, for some it was for some it wasn't. Obviously the activity at spawn declined within about 2 months because there were no further updates (mid december update anyone?)/reasons to hunt more, reverting back to just a place you either hang out at or use it to get to what you need to do.
Most/if not all of the mods will agree with me that with 1.13 they have seen a decline of new players asking where things are directly after implementing 1.13 spawn which had specifically more thought-out layout and directions given to find your way for the core features as warps, shops, crafting. The floating texts and short-cut buttons results in less time spend at spawn, that will always remain true for players that use spawn for just that: get your stuff and get out. And there are a lot of those, i even witnessed players were playing daily on the server and after a week or 2 found out we had a new spawn, i know this because they earned the achievement "a new beginning"(which you get standing in the direct spawnpoint area) after seeing them around for a few weeks. Those players rarely go back to the spawn because they play minecraft in a different way than most regulars on the server.
What you said about players not knowing what to do i've seen personally on the other spawns as well. Over the years i witnessed new players join and instantly leaving, didn't matter which spawn they were in. Some of those will always walk around the spawn area. There are those players who judge the "worth" of the server and reasoning why they should play on it to the spawn claim, because they see the time and effort being spend on spawn as a direct association on the quality of the server or the amount of events being held. I can say that with a certainty because i am one of those players. We see the spawn as a direct correlation to what kind of server it is. Now you can counter argue that there are new players who like the more simple spawns. And i can only say i agree with you, because there are more ways players play this game than 1 and we can't satisfy them all.
TL;DR. With this being said i highly argue against 1.13 being the direct cause of the decline in community feeling. Now.. can it be 1 of the causes? I'm sure it is since some players have said so on discord and i quote:"One of the main reasons I left ss a while ago was the new spawn". I'm not in denial or setting those arguments aside for being untrue, I'm merely stating its a piece of the whole puzzle, not the puzzle itself. To use arguments like it and stating it being the main cause for a whole player base is kinda, well... ignorant.
A lot of your points are valid however I feel as your not really asking what the community wants, your looking for confirmation bias. Basically you asked hey which do you guys want? Then post why were all wrong (those that do) for wanting 1.12 spawn.
Also to the point of server population and spawn, SS didnt become popular for having the best most optimized spawn with rated metrics and professional design (that I am aware of) so I dont think not having one is responsible or will cause population to continue to dwindle.
A lot of that is for other reasons which have nothing to do with the topic at hand but not because of spawn.
I did ask what you guys prefer, correct. My reasoning was that i'm well aware of the dislike/like/suggestions being made over the months since its release. Me asking was my way to see what I as a staff member can do this time around for the player base, instead of going through with the massive change that was 1.13.
If you read what i said as in "nekkid telling us we're wrong in wanting 1.12" then i suggest reading it again. No where did i say you're wrong in wanting 1.12. I'm well aware of players wanting 1.12/earlier, the comments on the forum/discord/in game over the months and the vote in the poll reflects that, you have no idea how many message I got about that fact both positive and negative, I would be a fool to deny that. This whole post is me asking what the community wants, it's the purpose of it. I may have given the vibe that i'm cherrypicking on boonoodles arguments and projecting those arguments towards a group of players that want 1.12, but im merely stating that "you guys" are part of the community just the same as i am or other players with different voices and opinions. Just because you see a group of players wanting the same thing as you doesnt mean it's the voice of the entire community. And that is exactly the point I try to make by writing that lengthy reply.
What I did say is and what i stand by:
Pointing at the new spawn for the decrease in community feeling as the sole reason is wrong, it may be for individuals, but it's wrong to project that reasoning for the whole group that left. As it is a factor not the cause, community is player driven and player motivated. It is not solemnly tied to a location, but it can have a positive effect on it.
I can agree that the popularity doesn't have anything to do with spawn being optimized. I didn't claim it has anything to do with it. 1.13 spawn came years/months after the player base already dwindled. The only intended "design" decision being made here was the addition of the fish kill gameplay, which like i said, was an experiment to see if players come back. To some it was successful to others it was a flop.
Maybe i failed on my part conveying the thought process. My intention was to lay bare that there are more viewpoints than the ones given being the "only reason". Now.. does that make me a hypocrite? I think not. Because we, as community/staff have an opportunity here to improve upon what we've learned so far. In the end i'm only doing this because i enjoy it. And i don't want to be the direct cause of other's people decrease in fun
Now remove the water and we're all set
I realize it was not your intent for the post to come accross as 'this is why your wrong for wanting this' but that is how I lightly interpreted it.
In any case I believe the main failings of the previous spawn was its large size, lag, and lack of a cozy feeling. Objectively it was better in a lot of ways you describe, but in the end I think it lacks(ed) that certain warm and fuzzy feeling you get visiting. I personally feel it was not condusive to being a social space, but rather traded that for being exeedingly good at getting you to where you need to be to do the one thing youre trying to do.
Nekkid, I really love your builds, please keep up the good work!
And this is where we can agree on. It failed in connecting to the outside edge of the spawn area, where the players were building, and thus making it feel isolated with the only way out was to use the random tp / warps. Obviously it didn't deny players venturing out, but it wasn't as inviting like, lets say, the flat spawns in the past where players would just jump run their way into the distance.
It was trading in cozy feeling for gameplay reasons and that had its pros and cons. I think the idea is to go back to that ss root of creating a "warm and cozy" feeling again.
The things I like about the suggested new lay out -simplifying things and, quite literally, bringing it back down to earth- I think this will help so much in making it easier to navigate getting out of spawn and encourage more "play" there cause people can move in and out with ease. As for the "road layout" you mentioned I feel that it is these strict paths that lead to some of the closed off feel, might I suggest something more like a open courtyard or plaza, like 1.8/1.12 had, to allow players to choose their own path and making all the different locations feel more like one space instead of separate units.
An now to address some of the rest of your post:
Firstly I in no way feel "cherrypicked" or singled out for being quoted, I get it, I wrote a longer post than most people and therefore brought together some of the opinions being shared in one nice easy to quote from location -in no way do I feel your post was directed just at me.
That being said, there are some things I would like to address:
If you look back at my post you will see that I say "Having spent a LOT of time derping around both" This is because I spend a LOT of my time at spawn, this is due to the fact that I mainly play for the social part of the game. If I just wanted to build I would do a single player. And craving that social interaction from the game I try to be where the people are, or aren't in the case of the 1.13. Yes the fishing event did bring people to spawn for a time, brought them to spawn to go underwater and away from other players in a way killing a lot of the socialization. At the 1.12 spawn you could literally stand in one spot and see almost everyone that was at spawn, what they were up to, if they were just passing through or up to late night shenanigans. You could run up and say hi, which quite frequently lead to conversations and more interactions (the same can not be said for the "hi o/" you get in chat) At the 1.13 someone could come and go from spawn and you would never know, you both could be hanging out for some time and never see each other. It is not, for me at least, a case of "I spent more time at the old spawn...so I have better or more memories, therefore it is better" its more like "I spent a ton of time at both spawns...but there was sadly no memories to make at one."
And now to address these points:
You, many times, seem to point to people saying that the 1.13 spawn is "the direct cause" "the main cause" "sole reason" and "only reason" that there is a loss of community feel or for loss of the actual players themselves. Having gone through this thread and also having seen a large amount of what was posted on discord, I don't understand where you are getting this from. I have seen statements like the one you quoted that say "One of the main reasons I left ss a while ago was the new spawn" the "I" and "One of" being the key part here. People are saying their own personal reasons for leaving (note that reasons is plural there, meaning there is more than one) I have not seen anyone say that the ONE and ONLY reason the we have lost players is the 1.13 spawn or that the 1.13 is the ONLY reason we have lost the feeling of community. If there are people saying that and I missed it, my bad, I am wrong, but I am just not seeing people pointing the finger JUST at the 1.13 spawn. There are many reasons why people have left (just tired of the game, didn't like the updates, their equipment cant handle the update and a whole host of other personal reasons).
And as for you arguing against "1.13 being the direct cause of the decline in community feeling", no it is not THE cause but it is A cause and clearly a important one for the people pointing it out, maybe even their main one. And saying people are "ignorant" for thinking it might be the same for other players, just feels, at least to me, as rather dismissive and rude. As I said in my post I feel that spawn should be a community hub, therefore the loss of the "community feel" at spawn can trickle out into the loss of the feeling in the community as a whole and lead, yes, to the loss of the community itself. Do I think that the spawn is wholly to blame for this, heck no. Like I said there is a lot of reasons the community has gotten smaller and more distant from each other. Do I think that fixing spawn so it is more of the hub I mentioned, will help bring the community back together and help bring back at least some of the community feel, heck yes I do.
I think that the basic layout would be magnificent! But I just think the water and the fact we spawn facing the farm is a bit out of place...
I personally loved the 1.13 spawn and I really enjoyed the the fish hunting part as well. It gave me something to do while not building or when I needed a break from building. Sometimes all I wanted was something entertaining but not something that demanded all my attention. It was really interesting to explore the 1.13 spawn and the occasional game that required you to be familiar with all the cracks and crevices was alot of fun. The biggest downfall or disappointment to me was the lack of random hidden areas that were so fun to find in the 1.12 spawn. There was so many places a hidden chamber or secret door could have been placed but they just never really appeared. The whole of spawn was so designed and themed it seemed to lack that of bit of random that previous spawns had. It felt like things didn't get randomly added because it was such a well thought out planned space.
The hidden villager was a neat addition to 1.12 and it was fun finding him in 1.13 but it would have been even cooler if he occasionally changed inventory. The monthly merchants offering special items was a real draw for me.
I mentioned liking the fish hunting aspect and was excited that there were going to be more along that strain, even if it never came to fruition. To me this was the best aspect of the 1.13 spawn. Sometimes the sheer size of the 1.13 spawn was daunting, sometimes, but I feel the pro's way outweighed the con's. For the new spawn I personally would like something not quite so grandiose, in sheer size, but that still incorporates the improvements of 1.13. Adding or in this case not adding but allowing the freedom of random that was in previous versions would be really cool. Honestly though, I can't say any change is really going to impact my playing or time at spawn. Besides the fish hunting game and occasional head hunt my time at spawn was usually limited to only showing up when I needed something I could only get at spawn i.e. unbreakable tools or unique items.
Not saying his is happening but reopening the server is not delayed by you guys discussing about what spawn to make, right?
If it is, please just do a simple quick one and get us back online, then continue the discussion for the better spawn
Just voicing a concern, not saying it is warranted.
New spawn is very lovely, but it took me about a week to find where the public farm was.
I'd prefer to go back to a simple spawn, it seems to fit the character of the server better.
No we are not.