Allow the Schematica Mod

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by sStari, Dec 1, 2019 at 10:57 PM.

In your opinion, should the mod be allowed?

  1. Yes

    44.4%
  2. No

    55.6%
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  1. sStari

    sStari Recruit

    In my opinion, I believe we should be able to use Schematica mod to copy builds from other worlds. What I mean is that we can use the hologram feature to show an outline of the build the player would want to copy. Now I know that Schematica has a "Printer" option but that is disabled in survival.

    Schematica gives no advantage to players, it's just a helpful building tool, and would be good for things like Shops or Highly Complicated builds.

    For those who do not know what Schematica is:
    The mod allows you to display a hologram, loaded from a schematic file, for easier rebuilding. You can also save your creations to schematic files and share them.

    Ty for reading,

    Your friendly neighbourhood Chicken

    EDIT: I added a poll above the thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019 at 7:24 PM
  2. I'm all for this, but it simply would not be allowed. There are certain guidelines that have to be met for a server to be classified as "Semi-Vanilla" and I presume the restriction of client mods to shaders / optifine is one of them.
     
  3. Yea this would no longer make this a semi survival server because its a mod and not a plugin, id love this but sadly it wouldn't happen :(
     
  4. It certainly is an advantage, u build stuff faster this way, just like giving extra speed to run faster.
     
  5. sStari

    sStari Recruit

    If people are allowed to use speed items, then surely we should be allowed to have an advantage when we build stuff.
     
  6. That doesn't justify using modded client, i could even say flying as an example.
     
  7. BladeWave

    BladeWave Monster Hunter Moderator

    Along with what Zai said, Schematica is a cheat mod which changes the player gameplay from the basic Vanilla Minecraft experience. As Jay mentioned above, as a result of this, one reason we cannot allow it is a result of Safe Survival being strictly a Semi-Vanilla server. In other words, we would be classified as a Modded Survival server if we were to allow the mod along with others, hence loosing our position as the #1 Semi-Vanilla survival server.

    However, this does not include Shaders nor Optifine as they're only "cosmetic" modifications to the game that do not alter player gameplay.

    Any mod that alter the way in which your Minecraft client interacts with and communicates with Safe Survival are not allowed. Therefore, we can only allow mods that are strictly used client side-only, and are not changing or altering the behavior of the game.
     
  8. Ikith

    Ikith Master

    A correction to these and others saying this, schematica is a client side mod, which would not impact the servers semi-vanilla status. Semi-vanilla only applies to plugins/mods applied on the server not client sided mods. As an example, shaders and optifine are both client sided "mods".

    Furthermore "the printer option is disabled in survival" we've had players using schematica printer (not sure if it was the official version of schematica or not) on survival, those players were also banned. Outright banning the schematica mod is a catch-all for this.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. It's worth nothing that the mod author created a plugin to control the usage of Schematica. This plugin, like the one already present on the server that interfaces with World Downloader, would still qualify the server as semi-vanilla.
     
  10. Basically irrelevant. It is trivial to modify the mod to not notify the plugin. Literally can be done in 2 minutes. Not that I've tried it on safe survival, of course. Also agree that while this would be useful, it would increase build copying and take away from the vanilla aspect of ss.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Ikith

    Ikith Master

    Correct, however:
    A. That is not what is being talked about.
    B. This plugin that limits the use of schematica can be bypassed easily with unoffocial "hacked" builds (like mentioned in my post where one could enable printer in survival mode, which according to the other user is normally not available) of schematica that ignore server set limitations.
     
  12. No offense but this would take away from the game experience greatly... if you are needing to copy a build from a single player world there are plenty of other tools that do not modify the game.
    This would also be a wedge in the door for other mods to be argued to be added, at some point later someone would say 'we have allowed ____ mod this other mod is only an extension or provides some other useful purpose.' Before you know it theres a long list of allowed & not allowed mods & variations of said mods. Then we'd be like all the other servers with people coming on with modded clients that cheat because we allowed certain mods.
    It just needlessly complicates things down the road, ive seen it before... i quit other servers before SS because of this very thing.
    I really love that SS is a vanilla building experience. No mods means i can play without having to mess with a modded client & tweak all the things to make it work right.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. sStari

    sStari Recruit

    What tools are there that do not "modify the game"?
     
  14. A server cannot definite itself as "Semi vanilla" and allow say, hacked clients. If it did, it would fall under the "Anarchy" genre, so the classification depends on both server policy in respect to rules and actual plugins.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  15. Ikith

    Ikith Master

    Can you please show me in the semi-vanilla guidelines where it explicitly states that certain rules HAVE TO BE set (no hacked/modified clients, etc), as I must be missing something here.

    Quoted for ease of access:
    As I was saying the semi-vanilla rules only go in to detail about what plugins/mods server side are allowed, and modified clients are not covered/left up to the owner to decide on whats allowed and not allowed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 9:12 AM
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  16. Of course they only go into detail about server side plugins, but it’s normal code of conduct that a semi vanilla server has rules against hacking. There won’t be any popular semi vanilla server that would allow hacks, whereas the key characteristic that defines an anarchy server is not the plugins, but the fact that they have no rules.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  17. Ikith

    Ikith Master

    So, what you are saying is “I just made up what I said to fit my narrative that semi-vanilla servers must have rules against hacking”. Which is factually incorrect as there are around 10 servers in the MCSL (where the semi-vanilla guidelines come from) in “Semi-vanilla” that have no rules and allow hacked clients. It's also worth noting that MCSL doesn't have an anarchy category nor guidelines for anarchy meaning that an anarchy server that fits in to categories like "Semi-vanilla" are completely fine, which again MCSL is where the semi-vanilla guidelines come from. Furthermore there is no "code of conduct" or standard outside of the guidelines that I quoted, again you're making things up to fit your narrative/your definition of what semi-vanilla is/should be.

    Sure anyone can sit there and classify a server as semi-vanilla but if they do not fit the criteria their server will be removed from the category, and again semi-vanilla guidelines only cover what plugins the server is allowed to have, it does not state that you must have certain rules.

    Along the lines of your argument that no popular semi-vanilla servers will be anarchy, that’s side-stepping and contradicting what you originally said, and is absolutely meaningless, just because the few anarchy semi-vanilla servers that exist aren’t popular (one is on the first page of results by the way, which with how hard it is to make it in the semi-vanilla category/Minecraft voting sites as a whole is pretty dang good) doesn’t mean that anarchy semi-vanilla servers aren’t allowed/aren’t valid in the semi-vanilla category.

    Sorry if I'm being a bit repetitive, I'm trying to drive the point home that what you think "Semi-vanilla" is, is your definition of what semi-vanilla should be and should contain as rules, which is contrary to what is actually allowed within the category/site as a whole.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 4:19 PM
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  18. I cannot understand why this is getting heated, but I see your point. From a strict guidelines basis, yes. Server categorisation is dependent solely on plugins alone. Nonetheless I stick behind what I said. What I am arguing is that the general trend with specific server types means that rules against hacking falls under the category of semi vanilla, and other server types too such as minigame servers, whereas the characteristic element to anarchy servers, that actually defines a server as anarchy is whether it allows rules or not.

    An anarchy server can have the same plugins as a semi vanilla server, but is still different to semi vanilla servers because it allows hacks!

    You're also using anecdotal evidence for when I am discussing general, majority trends. 10 Semi vanilla servers allow hacks? What about the 312 other semi vanilla servers that do not allow hacks according to MCSL? Exceptions mean little. Therefore rules play a role in defining servers, even if the one website you are referring to does not explicitly.

    Anyways, this is straying away from the topic of the suggestion, so I will refrain from saying anymore. PM me if you want to continue this.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  19. BladeWave

    BladeWave Monster Hunter Moderator

    Seeing as this has somehow turned into an argument on the definitions of an Anarchy and Semi-Vanilla server, I'm locking this thread.

    But to answer your question Sstari, staff discussed it and we will not allow the use of Schematica. We wish to keep Safe Survival close to Vanilla without any major modifications. My apologies.
     
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